“There is a Jew behind me!”
I have purposely not written a hypothesis as I don’t want to see it as an aim, instead I want to go into this with a complete open mind and absolutely no premeditated conclusions.
What I will do however is write my current feelings on the religion, to see if at the end of the month they have altered at all.
This post will be completely honest, please don’t bother reading if you will be offended by anything short of adoration.
Before I met my husband I never really thought much about Islam, I had my hands full with Christianity. I’m not the type to be suckered into media manipulation, but at the same time I was very anti religions and what I did know about that one I thought was very “cult’ish”.
Fast forward to meeting my husband and experiencing an Islamic society and I no longer view it on the same level as Scientology (for any scientologists out there that was a joke, please don’t hunt me down Mr Cruise ;-)) but as a religion as developed and varied as Christianity.
But that isn’t always a good thing.
On the one hand I get told something I can get my head around, and then the next there is something that has me shaking my head with disbelief.
Recently someone told me how the Hadiths predict the end of times will be- Jesus will come kill pigs, break crosses, and raise up Muslims to hunt down Jews who will hide behind talking trees, oh but the “Jew trees” wont tell on them (Sahih Bukhari, Vol. 4, Book 55, No. 657; Fateh-ul Bari, Vol. 7, P. 302/ Sahih Muslim, Kitab al-Fitan wa Ashrat as-Sa’ah, Book 41, 6985/ Kitab al-Fitan, hadith. 2239) Let me point out that not all Muslims believe this, but it does worry me that many however do.
I also find the way atheists, and disbelievers in general, are seen as quite unnerving. To have someone stare me straight in the face and tell me that of course I deserve to burn in hell simply for a disbelief, nothing to do with how I am as a person, doesn’t exactly scream “friendly religion” to me.
However, I am certainly not of the mind that Muslims are all terrorists and hijackers. Some of the nicest people I have ever met have been Muslims and they have all told me that Islam is a religion of peace, something that I hope to find out for myself when I read the Quran over Ramadan.
Another thing is separating Islam from Muslims. “Thank God I found Islam before I found Muslims!” exclaims one of my converted friends whenever she hears yet another Muslim cleric talking tripe, from warning the danger of phallic foods or saying it is ok to sleep with a dead partner. I didn’t have such luck. I have been surrounded by Muslims, be it in the media or in person, born or convert, but have actually spent very little time with Islam. How much of the negative views I have come from misguided individuals and Hadiths?
From where I stand now Islam seems very picky (I have just read a long conversation about the dangers of colourful head coverings), but maybe it is certain Muslims who have too much time on their hands that have actually degraded the religion far more than the Daily Fail, erm Mail, can ever do? After all, I am married to a wonderful Muslim man, someone who I’m proud to have as the father of my child, how can I not believe there must be at least some good in the religion when he would adamantly declare all the good he has comes from it? Just don’t talk to me about talking trees…
Jul 15, 2012 @ 09:20:48
Well all of the Abrahamic faiths believe atheist will burn in hell. Prior to that, atheist during pagan times were also told they were going to burn in hell. So quite frankly few religions are friendly to atheists 🙂 But it shouldn’t bother you as an Atheist, hell doesn’t exist for you does it? I mean if you don’t believe in heaven, how can you believe in hell? And if you don’t believe in it, how can you possibly be offended or upset by someone wishing the non-existant on you?
Jul 15, 2012 @ 17:32:24
You wouldn’t be the first to say to me that if I don’t believe in hell then why does it matter. But it does matter because other people DO believe in hell.
If I truly believed something I worshiped hated a certain type of person so much that they deserve torture, how will I personally feel towards such people? Not great, after all, if my god thinks they are so bad, then they must be, right?
If I believed all Muslims should be tortured, whether it be in this life or the next, and over a billion people shared my opinion, I don’t think they would be too happy about it, even though they don’t believe it will happen.
Such beliefs breed hatred, it allows it, in fact it down right encourages it. So yes in my mind if a religious book is saying that God himself actually wants to punish perfectly good people then I am worried how people can believe such thing, is it because they always had this hate for us and this justifies it for them?
Although I do believe religious texts are fiction, it is fiction people believe in, which can make it much more dangerous than The Hobbit.
Jul 18, 2012 @ 09:50:17
I thought about what you said and I think you might be missing the point when people say yes since you have denied the existence of God you deserve his punishment which happens to be burning in hell.
If you have a child and you tell them they have to clean their room or they don’t get to go to a friends birthday part which is 2 weeks away. Everyday you remind the child to clean his room but he doesn’t do it. In all other ways he’s good, but he just willfully refuses to clean his room, says he doesn’t have to listen to you and it’s your problem if you don’t like the mess and smell that comes from the room and all the glasses are in there and the other aspects related to him refusing to clean his room, no clean cleans unless you get them, constant panic cause he can’t find stuff etc etc. You have other children who are watching this and you notice his refusal to clean his room is influencing the other children. At the end of the 2 weeks do you let the child go to the birthday party or not? Does he deserve the punishment of not going to the birthday party?
If you asked people about this punishment, nobody is going to think you hate your child or you’re laying the ground work for him to be called a messy pig for the rest of his life, but they are probably going think he would deserve it or it’s justified.
When atheist and religious people discuss this and atheist bring out the “but I’m a good person” and are offended by the believers saying they’ll go to hell it’s silly cause the atheist knows that is what believers believe. You are warned that if you deny God’s existence then you will go to hell, Hence since you have the opportunity to avoid the punishment but refuse to obey/listen then you “deserve” the punishment. To question the “deserve-ness” of the punishment would be akin to questioning God.
It doesn’t mean that I hate you or wish anything bad upon you, but belief in heaven and hell and those that deny the existence of God will be punished by God is part of the whole belief and expecting me to say anything else would be asking me to deny part of my beliefs.
BTW, When atheist call me a religious nutball out to ruin the world and peoples minds for a fairytale and point out all the atrocities committed in the name of religion and find me guilty of being a participant in these atrocities as I do believe therefore support the religious system. That all believers should be put on a deserted Island and nuked or that the world would be better off without believers, well since I know that is pretty much their position on the matter, I can’t let it bother me.
Jul 18, 2012 @ 10:15:10
If I burnt and tortured my child, whatever his disobedience, people would call me immoral. Punishment should fit the crime.
Also an all knowing God knows atheists are not atheists because we are naughty and want to disobey him. If it turned out Odin was the true god, and he punished Muslims with fire would that be fair? When he knew you didn’t become a Muslim to go against him, but simply because the evidence you saw lead you to that path.
If my son didn’t clean his room because he genuinely believed it wasn’t an instruction from me, yes he was misguided but I wouldn’t punish.
I can’t get my head around how immoral actions for a human suddenly become moral for a god, when in fact a god should be better than the best human being, but humans give him characteristics of what we would otherwise call “bad”.
Jul 18, 2012 @ 10:17:02
Just one last thought, both Jews and Christians believe that I am going to hell because I’m a Muslim, I don’t get offended or think Christians are wishing evil upon me because I know it’s part of their belief.
Although if you read some of the things Muslims say today, you won’t believe me when I say this, but one of the reasons I felt Islam was true was because it accepted Christians and Jews as believers and in the Qur’an it says Jews and Christians who stay true to their scriptures have nothing to fear on the last day (they don’t go to hell) Of course the Qur’an warns against believing in the trilogy so I don’t know how Catholics are going to fare. But another thing that is important in Islam is your intention with how you live your life, so maybe that’s the loophole for Catholics. 🙂 But sorry, even in Islam you have to have a belief in God.
I also struggled with the concept of hell for perfectly good kind people or what about people who have never heard of God/Allah, in example the bush people of South America or other indigenous people not infected the Abrahamic faiths. Are all Hindus going to go to hell? It’s a big question and one that only God/Allah can answer. I like the Sufi answer though that “God appears to people in the way that person can understand”
It seems true as it seems that every culture on every place on earth has some sort of God/Divine being belief.
Jul 18, 2012 @ 10:27:04
I just read your reply to my first post. It’s not for me to decide whether or not the punishment God sets is deserved. And your arguments back to me are illogical because I believe the instructions of belief are clearly from God This is why atheist and believers will never agree because we don’t accept each others arguments as logical or true. 🙂
Jul 18, 2012 @ 10:32:45
You don’t choose to believe or disbelieve something, there is no switch to it. I can’t click my fingers and become a theist just like you can’t to become an atheist. Neither of us are what we are due to rebelling. We didn’t get here to spite someone/thing, and if there is a god/s, and he was all knowing, then he would certainly know that (hell I’m not all knowing and even I know that one lol). Surely what makes a crime is the intention?